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  #31  
Old October 9th, 2012
Trent Trent is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Someone contacted me and expressed their desire to create a plan to get funding and support for the establishment of a foreskin model in vitro.

In my opinion, there are a few things to keep in mind and do:


1) Understand the science

All to often when I have emailed Foregen, they (at least Enzo) seems clueless on the science. Especially on the technical limitations. They don't seem to have a scientist or someone with science training on their team.

So, along with some of the other papers I have posted, I would EXTREMELY recommend reading this article IN DEPTH:

Title: In Vitro Culture Methods of Skin Cells for Optimal Skin Reconstruction by Tissue Engineering

Year: 2010

Authors: Moulin VJ, Mayrand D, Laforce-Lavoie A, Larochelle S and Genest H

Affiliation: Université Laval, Québec, QC, Canada


SEE ATTACHED PDF FILE

http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/19021.pdf
http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/19021.pdf

Second Link
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/19021...ngineering.pdf
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/19021...ngineering.pdf

Third Link
http://www.intechopen.com/books/rege...ue-engineering
LINK

In particular focus on PART 4 of the article.

Here is a good quote from that part:
"The absence of sebaceous and sweat glands in the reconstructed tissue is a recurrent problem for patients with large burn areas that have been grafted with tissue-engineered skin. This absence induces important thermoregulation problems and causes a dry skin that needs to be constantly moisturized. The addition of these glands to a tissue-engineered skin is not trivial but recent results offer promise (Huang et al., 2010)."

2) Keep in mind foreskin regeneration is cosmetic dermatology


Emphasize that work on a foreskin model now will also advance research towards helping those with more morbid ailments and diseases with the genitals. Don't make it solely about foreskin. Remember regeneration can be beneficial for those with depression, etc. similar to how transgender surgery helps people.


3) Most importantly, find an institute, company that will establish a foreskin model.


Understand that whatever they make immediately cannot be sewn onto you.

The idea is that whatever they make will be significant similar to foreskin in physical characteristics, color, adnexa, behavior, etc. AND will not yield tumors due to non stop replication, etc.

This might take a year or two to develop correctly but you would have done a few things:

1) The contracted company wants a successful model because it makes them look good

2) They will advertise their success through science articles, publications, magazine articles, etc.

3) This brings more attention to the cause

4) This makes the movement more sophisticated (from fantasy to practical and scientific)

5) Other research groups, such as those in Wake Forest, will be more likely to attempt a model as well, even if it is only a graduate students thesis, etc.

6) This makes rich donors more likely to support, since they see TANGIBLE success

7) So that in 10 years when skin regeneration from in vitro skin becomes more mainstream, the science of foreskin regeneration will already have been talked about in a scientific manner, investigated years earlier, experimented, flaws and problems identified, troubleshooting done, and thus less time for application in patients.

Lets say it takes another 7 years for adnexa to be regenerated in humans, and another 5 years for approval in cosmetic dermatology. Instead of sitting on your hands, a foreskin model(s) have been SIMULTANEOUSLY established and experimented on with adnexa regeneration techniques.

Its the same thing with those researchers who created a human ear from a scaffold. That ear has no feeling, no adnexa, will require constant moisturizing. HOWEVER, they atleast know it will stop multiplying, has similar physical characteristics, etc. Thus when adnexa regeneration is refined, it can be easily incorporated to their model ear and then quickly used to help patients.

For all we know a foreskin model as opposed to other skin type models may for whatever reason show a high capacity for adnexa regeneration, and thus be applicable in other fields.

This is speculation that can be easily answered with an in vitro model.

4) How to find an institute that will try to establish a model

That is what I have been doing. Honestly its as simple as Googling, reading mission statements, and emailing them. After contacting them, they told me about adnexa being the main limitation.

And don't be limited within the United States.

I would suggest contacting (and if you have the money) contracting even 2 (one group may specialize on dermis and the other on vasculature, etc.) depending upon the money one may have.

Remember they probably wont be able to reproduce all adnexa (again read the article I posted above), but they will reproduce the right thickness, smooth muscle, etc. which would be a huge break.

These companies want a new model to stay relevant.

Lastly I will emphasize again:

5) Understand the science

Understanding and following the science like I have will keep you informed, realistic and optimistic.

Follow the publications by the authors of the papers I have posted.

If you want to know more about sweat gland regeneration see Sha Huang and his work ("In vitro constitution and in vivo implantation of engineered skin constructs with sweat glands") (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4296121000431X) and follow the papers that have cited him.

Supporting these scientists and their institutes, on the condition that they will investigate a foreskin model for instance, could also be helpful.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Moulin VJ et al 2011.pdf (644.7 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by Trent; October 21st, 2012 at 16:59.
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  #32  
Old October 9th, 2012
Trent Trent is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Also:

Read this article about John Hopskins research:

http://hub.jhu.edu/2012/09/26/ear-reconstruction

Perhaps instead of tugging, what if this was also done, but instead of an ear shaped piece of cartilage, a very thin cylindrical more flexible piece of cartilage were added added month by month to stretch out the skin over the glans as desired and then the expanded skin would have its dermis and epidermis modified to match that of foreskin through grafting.

Last edited by Trent; October 18th, 2012 at 20:08.
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  #33  
Old October 9th, 2012
airpud airpud is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Maybe we should help spread a new idea - the idea that cut penises are losing locker room genital fashion shows all over the world and that many contestants are now looking for surgical options to maker them more competitive. This would hopefully create an impetus for the cosmetic industry to really make this foreskin regeneration happen. Maybe we have to put ourselves in the shoes of the average person.

"Want to have better-looking genitals? Get back to nature with Dermalife now!"

Maybe most people in a circed society think unmutilated penises look better. We perhaps should change this opinion and stress the naturalness of a real penis.
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Equal protection under the law to foreskins and clitorises? The whole system and the constitution might um, be collapsing now. Reject the system!
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  #34  
Old October 9th, 2012
admin admin is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Quote:
Originally Posted by airpud View Post
Maybe we should help spread a new idea - the idea that cut penises are losing locker room genital fashion shows all over the world
4SKN
FTW.

That should be a brand of underwear.
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  #35  
Old October 10th, 2012
Trent Trent is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

It's great to advertise, to spread awareness, using clothing, signs, etc. but awareness with no action is a waste of time and resources. Its like raising awareness that there are planets like Earth near a Sun like star in another galaxy far far away we need to visit. That's all nice, but until you build the first intergalactic lightspeed rocketship, spacesuits, space-time warp, etc. you're going no where.

People in support of foreskin regeneration need to encourage powerful/rich people, companies, organizations to fund this research. These sorts of entities will not do so unless they see an incentive. If we treat foreskin regeneration as cosmetic dermatology (a product and service) these incentives are:

1) the product/service eventually being applied for their own personal needs
EX: just like middle aged to old impotent men (and their needy wives) investing in Viagra research, etc.

2) monetary benefit from whatever products and services rendered in the future
EX: stock holders for the company that makes the in vitro foreskin, plastic surgery practices that want to use the procedure for their future patients, etc.


So if I'm someone like Ben Affleck, and Foregen tries to persuade me to donate money TO THEM for foreskin regeneration, as a wealthy celebrity, I for one think its a scam artist money grab initially. Then when I check out their website, I see no short term plans, no twitter updates on progress, etc., no one with a post-graduate science education offering feedback, no affiliations with institutes and companies.

However if Ben Affleck sees on a website, that a model is being made by a company (such as Epistem.co.uk) that employs experts in the field, and that progress will be immediately publicized, whatever money donated will be towards that model to be taken to trials in animals then humans, etc. I would be reassured. And that the advances made with this model is applicable to more serious diseases, as a celebrity, I would feel better about myself, and more likely to donate AND TELL MY OTHER RICH FRIENDS.

I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but contracting Epistem.co.uk and similar high integrity companies and institutes to create a model is BEST first step.

Before the rover "Curiosity" went on Mars, its prototypes spent some years being tested in the deserts of Arizona. And with each test it passed, the more support and funding came its way, because people (rich powerful people) believed more and more it would work.

Before John Hopkins did this type of stuff (http://hub.jhu.edu/2012/09/26/ear-reconstruction LINK), they had to test that the artificial ear wasn't toxic once inside the woman's arm, skin would fold around it correctly, taking a shower wouldn't damage anything, etc.

Last edited by Trent; October 18th, 2012 at 19:54.
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  #36  
Old October 26th, 2012
GoodMourning GoodMourning is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Trent,

It's obvious you've done a lot of research on regenerative medicine, and understand current medical science better than me or most people on this board probably. However, I'd like to just make a few comments regarding your enthusiasm for Epistem, as well as your thoughts on Foregen's transparency.

First off, Enzo has spoken to Epistem, and has gotten consultations from scientists involved in the Foregen project. They came to the conclusion that Epistem would not likely achieve the goals they're looking for. Depending on how long you've been following the Foregen project, you may know that one of the original proposals came from ACELL. Foregen believed that Acell would not be able to achieve a true regeneration. However, lots of people were pushing Enzo to accept and pay for the Acell proposal. As time has gone on, I think most people will admit that passing on Acell was the right thing to do. Enzo is not going to accept a company he does not believe in, whether he is right or wrong about Epistem.

Another thing to realize is that Foregen was founded by a single man, Enzo. Although you may not agree with him, you have to admit that Foregen is his to run, and the decisions are his to make. If you do not agree with their methods, you do not have to support Foregen financially. And If you believe that Epistem is truly the correct way to regenerate a foreskin in the future, you could consider starting a charitable foundation of your own. With some ambition and hard work, you could do it too just like Enzo, and fund an Epistem project.

Lastly, regarding transparency. Enzo has made the statement that in the past, when presenting information regarding Foregen proposals (such as Acell, CHUV, Wake Forest, etc) the organizations have gotten harassed with calls from people inquiring and pestering about foreskin restoration. As such, these organizations have chosen not to participate with Foregen. Unfortunately there are a number of very desperate people hoping for a cure, and ironically have caused trouble for the organizations that may have been able to help. To avoid situations like this, Enzo is not releasing some of the contact information regarding the organization involved. However, in the future more details will be released obviously. I agree that this is one of the hardest parts of participating and donating to Foregen. If it's not something you trust or something you can afford to lose, then you shouldn't donate.


To me, I trust Foregen and Enzo's judgement in where to spend the research money.
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  #37  
Old October 27th, 2012
Trent Trent is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

Trustworthy and professional organizations are inundated with calls all the time. I don't believe Wake Forest would quit making a heart if many heart patients started emailing them about it. Or Apple stop designing the iPhone 5 if many iPhone 4 users had sent feedback emails. As long as the calls and emails are respectful and coherent, the truly professional organizations will see it as interest in their product and service.


There is no excuse for lack of transparency when dealing with people's money. Transparency builds trust and respectability. Foregen currently appears to have no direction in the short-term, and is depending on donors blind faith, and Enzo's (who's education on biology, medicine, engineering is unknown to me) biomedical judgment. Its a turn off.


Also once nerve and adnexa are capable of being integrated to human in vitro skin commercially (like it is in mice), any cosmetic dermatologist/urologist will be able to order it and use on patients at their own request. So really, support of nerve and adnexa regeneration research is in line with foreskin regeneration.

Ultimately, foreskin regeneration has 2 major components: 1) there is the cellular properties like adnexa and nerve, and 2) there is the 3-D structure. At this time we can work on 2.
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  #38  
Old October 27th, 2012
INeedAForeskinTransplant INeedAForeskinTransplant is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

So, what's the latest news on this? I've been away from the “foreskin regeneration subculture” here, such as it is, for a few weeks, soooo…just wondering if I missed any important news about the progress of the research. It'll be my birthday coming up here in about a week, which kind of brings me mixed feelings. On the one hand, it is the anniversary of my mutilation , but on the other hand, I'm hoping to maybe get some money as a gift, so that maybe I can finally donate to Foregen for the first time ever and become a Foregen Supporter!

I want my foreskin back, and I want my life back, already! Goddammit!
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You can make foreskin regeneration possible, support foregen.
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  #39  
Old October 27th, 2012
Trent Trent is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

^Don't be fixated on Foregen as the ONLY option.


Testimonials from anonymous people, is not enough. Definitely not enough when these people request your money, in part by getting you emotional, riled up and not using your head.


Read, be informed on the science. Personally find the institutes involved with in vitro skin generation from autologous cells and motivate them to pursue adnexa and nerve regeneration for victims of genital abuse, genital disease, injury, etc.


As Element786 wisely posted in "Predictive giving - bringing regeneration closer" thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element786 View Post
Right, the funds would have to be pledged and placed in escrow first, which means you can't spend them (which is basically the same as making the pledge up front anyway).

It's a good sentiment but probably not realistic in practice. IMO the best way to raise money for this cause is to package it as a general skin regeneration research charity. Don't even mention circumcision. Only talk about burn victims and victims of violent crime, etc.

If people wonder why all the money is going to growing back foreskin, we can always easily point out the fact that foreskin is a very simple example of skin that contains several unique properties, so it's perfect "starting point" for attempting to regenerate any skin on the human body. Advertising Foregen in this way is not dishonest by any stretch of the imagination, IMO.
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  #40  
Old October 27th, 2012
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JimOZ6 JimOZ6 is offline
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Default Re: Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

... and while waiting for that genie in a lab to magically put all the scientific, political, economic and social issues together so that you can have a "regenerated" foreskin (and a new economic model where we cut babies and regerate foreskins as adults); you could be tugging and using your own bodies natural ability to grow skin and substantially change your life.

Aside from tugging to encourage our bodies to grow the skin it is already capable of growing; we can be working to STOP RIC on our brothers to come.
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