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  #11  
Old January 13th, 2012
1madmommy 1madmommy is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

We were referred to her for meatal stenosis, which another urologist at that hospital will be handling when he is a toddler, so we will not be seeing her for a long time, if ever.

We took my son to one of the pediatricians at our local center today (hovering over our son so no one could touch his penis), and when we explained everything that happened, she said that, "Yeah, urologists normally retract it very quickly like that" and that my son's circumcision "didn't take, so she was correcting that".

So my son's circumcision that shouldn't have happened in the first place "didn't take" and his remaining foreskin was acting the way it normally should, and they felt the need to "CORRECT" it? What the hell is wrong with the medical profession these days? What really scary is that this urologist is from a fairly famous and well known hospital on this side of the country. How many other children has she done this to? It's terrifying. (Also, I wonder how many re-circumcisions has she done as a result of her own tampering with little boys genitals?)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to leave it alone and monitor his healing for now.
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  #12  
Old January 13th, 2012
andy932 andy932 is offline
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Location: australia qld
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

just watch and make sure that the 2 raw patchs that have now been made dont join up and form a skin bridge. it would have been ok if it was left but now with raw open sores its a guessing game if it will heal together or not. just keep an eye on it and if it does look to be joining then u will have to retract it to break it apart to stop it forming a skin bridge. i wish u luck with all
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  #13  
Old January 14th, 2012
WoundedBird's Avatar
WoundedBird WoundedBird is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

I feel for you and your son. I'm sorry you've had these awful experiences.

I am also very curious about how your son was circumcised. Do you know what method was used? It sounds like it must have been either a Mogen clamp or some sort of forceps-guided procedure. But every circumcision video I've ever seen, even loose Mogen cuts, they break apart the synechiae - the "adhesions" that attach the glans to the foreskin - before they cut off tissue. In this case, the OB simply clamped the protruding tip of the foreskin and cut it off without breaking the synechiae at all? Or I wonder did it simply re-attach? It just seems odd to me.

On a positive note, if your son was circumcised THAT loosely, his sexual functioning will probably be rather good. I've only known a couple of adult men who were cut so loosely that they looked intact, and they experience very intense sexual pleasure. The man I love has full flaccid coverage with overhang, and half the glans covered when erect -- and he's not poorly endowed. It sounds as if your son was cut the same way he was. Most of us were cut much more tightly than that.

Another note - I think Science Monk is correct about being vigilant to avoid adhesions from forming. Unfortunately, from all that I've read, since the damage was already done, leaving the foreskin constantly forward at this point could be a mistake. When babies are given loose or "partial" circumcisions like your sons, the offending doctor usually recommends retracting every day and using petroleum jelly to keep the glans and inner foreskin from refusing. I don't think it will simply go back to the way it was now that it's been completely torn. I have a friend who is loosely cut and has full flaccid coverage, but unlike my beau has no erect coverage. Last year he tore his inner foreskin remnant during rough sex. The wound ended up adhering to his glans and causing a major skin bridge. He had to have minor surgery to repair it, and even had to endure the risk of more foreskin being amputated if the doctor found it necessary. Fortunately he didn't lose any tissue, but he could have. I believe if you just let the foreskin stay forward 24/7 and leave it alone completely, there will be adhesions/skin-bridges and then your son may require further surgery, possibly even losing more foreskin. As sad as his initial circumcision occurring is, he has more sexual tissue left than most American men...try to make sure it stays that way.
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  #14  
Old January 14th, 2012
JimOZ6's Avatar
JimOZ6 JimOZ6 is offline
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Location: Saukville, Wisconsin, USA
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it? Adhesions

I am wondering if it wouldn't make sense to use EMU oil on those sores?

I know popular wisdom is to leave things alone, but now that the butcher pretending to be a physician ripped the foreskin off the glans, it might be wise to have a healing balm for a short time so that it heals rather than form bridges.

I wish we had our own FR physician on this site... One who was skilled at treating the gaffs of his/her peers....
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  #15  
Old January 14th, 2012
Kyle Kyle is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

Here's what Doctors Opposing Circumcision says to do (section in italics):

Quote:
IMMEDIATE FIRST AID FOR FORCIBLY RETRACTED INTACT BOYS
Not all boys develop the problems we list, and millions of boys have eventually recovered from the physical results of forcible retraction by or on doctors’ orders, though no offending medical professional should take credit for the recuperative powers of children. (Of course millions did NOT fully recover and bear permanent, lifelong problems they may not even recognize as an injury.) Moreover, we do not yet fully understand the psychological effect of systematic and unjustified pain imposed on a boy’s genitals by his guardians and caregivers.

But if your child has been forcibly retracted, you MUST protect the now raw surfaces and take immediate steps to prevent unnatural reattachment of these surfaces no longer separated by a normal membrane. That membrane of birth once ripped apart will never grow back to then begin slowly dissolving on its own, original and natural, timetable. It is important to apply 4x/day Vaseline to the glans and inner foreskin for several weeks until the damaged tissue heals. This may prevent unnatural adhesions, (there are no guarantees) and importantly, may keep the child’s foreskin from becoming scarred and inelastic.

The best method, of course, is to forbid forced retraction before it occurs, by making your wishes known in advance in no uncertain terms, in writing, with a copy of the AAP guidelines (or maybe this essay) in your hand and made a formal part of your child’s chart. Better to momentarily irritate –or educate– your family physician or nurse than to injure your son for life. D.O.C. has diaper (nappie) stickers we urge parents to use. They say “I’m Intact; Don’t Retract!” This prompts a non-threatening discussion with the Anglophone medical professional.

But if you are ignored and your child is forcibly retracted despite your warning, –it can happen in seconds– you should report the offending rogue physician or nurse to your state medical society, supplying all the details. Or contact our physicians’ group to help you. There is no charge for our intercession though donations are appreciated.

If your provider understands this medicine correctly and respects your child’s natural anatomy, please share his or her name with us. We are always on the lookout for well-educated, ethical, ‘foreskin-friendly’ physicians and nurses to whom we can refer, with confidence, when parents of intact children inquire.

Remember—you have no duty to massage the ego of a poorly-educated medical ‘expert.’
Protect your child instead!
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  #16  
Old January 14th, 2012
1madmommy 1madmommy is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoundedBird View Post
I am also very curious about how your son was circumcised. Do you know what method was used? It sounds like it must have been either a Mogen clamp or some sort of forceps-guided procedure.
It was a Mogen and the skin was detached from the glans. I think the OB had underestimated the size of my son's glans. But he definitely looks circumcised, he does not look intact at all. His glans is always mostly exposed when not erect.

The Urologist actually had ripped his foreskin away from his shaft, far behind the glans. She pulled to about halfway down his shaft, which was not what she was supposed to do. She was supposed to break an adhesion near the end of his glans, nothing more.

I've been slowly and gently retracting his foreskin (not all the way down, as the urologist told me to do) to make sure the two tears don't heal together and applying breastmilk to it because he screamed when I tried Vaseline, and I read a mother of an intact boy who was retracted did that and he healed well.

The redness seems to be going away a little, and the tears are not healing together. My son's foreskin retracts much farther now than it ever did, so I doubt it will ever be the way it used to be. We've put him in larger sized disposable diapers (we normally use cloth) and make sure they don't touch his penis. He still whines and cries when he urinates and has an erection, but we are trying to make him as comfortable as we can while he heals.

Last edited by 1madmommy; January 14th, 2012 at 14:05. Reason: quote got messed up
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  #17  
Old January 14th, 2012
admin admin is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

Kyle said:
- - - - -
Here's what Doctors Opposing Circumcision says to do (section in italics):

Quote:
IMMEDIATE FIRST AID FOR FORCIBLY RETRACTED INTACT BOYS
Not all boys develop the problems we list, and millions of boys have eventually recovered from the physical results of forcible retraction by or on doctors’ orders, though no offending medical professional should take credit for the recuperative powers of children. (Of course millions did NOT fully recover and bear permanent, lifelong problems they may not even recognize as an injury.) Moreover, we do not yet fully understand the psychological effect of systematic and unjustified pain imposed on a boy’s genitals by his guardians and caregivers.

But if your child has been forcibly retracted, you MUST protect the now raw surfaces and take immediate steps to prevent unnatural reattachment of these surfaces no longer separated by a normal membrane. That membrane of birth once ripped apart will never grow back to then begin slowly dissolving on its own, original and natural, timetable. It is important to apply 4x/day Vaseline to the glans and inner foreskin for several weeks until the damaged tissue heals. This may prevent unnatural adhesions, (there are no guarantees) and importantly, may keep the child’s foreskin from becoming scarred and inelastic.

The best method, of course, is to forbid forced retraction before it occurs, by making your wishes known in advance in no uncertain terms, in writing, with a copy of the AAP guidelines (or maybe this essay) in your hand and made a formal part of your child’s chart. Better to momentarily irritate –or educate– your family physician or nurse than to injure your son for life. D.O.C. has diaper (nappie) stickers we urge parents to use. They say “I’m Intact; Don’t Retract!” This prompts a non-threatening discussion with the Anglophone medical professional.

But if you are ignored and your child is forcibly retracted despite your warning, –it can happen in seconds– you should report the offending rogue physician or nurse to your state medical society, supplying all the details. Or contact our physicians’ group to help you. There is no charge for our intercession though donations are appreciated.

If your provider understands this medicine correctly and respects your child’s natural anatomy, please share his or her name with us. We are always on the lookout for well-educated, ethical, ‘foreskin-friendly’ physicians and nurses to whom we can refer, with confidence, when parents of intact children inquire.

Remember—you have no duty to massage the ego of a poorly-educated medical ‘expert.’
Protect your child instead!
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  #18  
Old January 14th, 2012
1madmommy 1madmommy is offline
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Posts: 29
Unhappy Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

But if your child has been forcibly retracted, you MUST protect the now raw surfaces and take immediate steps to prevent unnatural reattachment of these surfaces no longer separated by a normal membrane. That membrane of birth once ripped apart will never grow back to then begin slowly dissolving on its own, original and natural, timetable. It is important to apply 4x/day Vaseline to the glans and inner foreskin for several weeks until the damaged tissue heals. This may prevent unnatural adhesions, (there are no guarantees) and importantly, may keep the child’s foreskin from becoming scarred and inelastic.


I have been gently retracting during diaper changes and baths (able to retract it much further during bath time). My son screamed the times I applied Vaseline to his glans and foreskin and kept grabbing at his penis afterward. Is there an alternative I could use? Or should I just use the Vaseline and hope in a few days it doesn't hurt him so much?
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  #19  
Old January 15th, 2012
Science Monk Science Monk is offline
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Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

Petroleum jelly is close to ideal for this purpose as anything you are going to find. It may be that the mechanics of slathering those raw, sensitive surfaces with the petroleum jelly is what is hurting your son, and not the petroleum jelly itself. You might try warming up the petroleum jelly to human body temperature so that it spreads easier. In practice, you can do this by putting a portion of petroleum jelly in the bottom corner of a small plastic bag and dunk the corner of the bag into a bowl of water that has been warmed to human body temperature. Alternatively, you can securely close the plastic bag and wear it close to you body until it is the same temperature as you are.

Baby oil might also work, but it is not going to stand up to the onslaught of urine like petroleum jelly will. You might try making your own ointment by taking a portion of petroleum jelly and adding baby oil (mineral oil) to it dropwise while mixing with a toothpick. An 'ointment base' is a mixture of petroleum jelly and mineral oil, but with more petroleum jelly. A 'cream base,' on the other hand, is also a mixture of petroleum jelly and mineral oil, but with more mineral oil. Ointments have more staying power on skin; creams wash off more readily.

David
World As Monkey Island
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  #20  
Old January 15th, 2012
Science Monk Science Monk is offline
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Posts: 560
Default Re: Do I leave it alone or retract it?

This recommendation comes from a former nurse:
If you bathe your son, take care not to submerge his raw penis in regular bath water. Also, NO soap or soapy water until those raw parts heal.

If you feel you must sit him in water, she recommends sitz baths instead for a soothing effect.

It's a recommendation that seems sound, so I'm relaying it to you.

David
World As Monkey Island

Last edited by Science Monk; April 30th, 2012 at 00:10. Reason: typo
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