Epistem.co.uk can create foreskin

[Trent]

Message I received from Epistem.co.uk

"Thank you for your recent email regarding skin regeneration. I passed your question to my technical colleagues and they feel it may be possible to grow foreskin. We culture 3 D human living skin equivalents to model normal, healthy skin. However, not all the components of human skin are present though (sweat glands, etc) and it isn’t clear how easy it would be to incorporate that functionality. In the case of damaged foreskin, active desquamation may also be needed. It may be possible to add the enzymes required for desquamation to the skin construct, during culture..."

If Foregen, should focus on companies like epistem, that have the infrastructure to create skin and already clearly know the limitations. It isn't impossible to add adnexa glands (sweat glands, etc.), it simply isn't easy or hasn't been tested for foreskin and isn't easy to say.

Foregen should fund projects within Epistem that create foreskin with the full components of muscle tissue and adnexa glands. epistem.co.uk/contactus.asp

[syrinx12]

bumping this thread.

[INeedAForeskinTransplant]

Originally Posted by Trent

Message I received from Epistem.co.uk

"Thank you for your recent email regarding skin regeneration. I passed your question to my technical colleagues and they feel it may be possible to grow foreskin. We culture 3 D human living skin equivalents to model normal, healthy skin. However, not all the components of human skin are present though (sweat glands, etc) and it isn’t clear how easy it would be to incorporate that functionality. In the case of damaged foreskin, active desquamation may also be needed. It may be possible to add the enzymes required for desquamation to the skin construct, during culture..."

If Foregen, should focus on companies like epistem, that have the infrastructure to create skin and already clearly know the limitations. It isn't impossible to add adnexa glands (sweat glands, etc.), it simply isn't easy or hasn't been tested for foreskin and isn't easy to say.

Foregen should fund projects within Epistem that create foreskin with the full components of muscle tissue and adnexa glands. epistem.co.uk/contactus.asp

Yes! See? Okay, this is what I'm talking about, finally — some lead at least — it's better than nothing! I wrote out a whole freakin’ novella (practically) in response to this last night, but it got deleted accidentally before I could post. Let me just try to sum up what I was going to say: I see this as a very positive development. Although, I am wondering about the regeneration of nerve and mucosa tissue, which were not mentioned in there with the sweat glands and etc. (possibly they aren't that in-depth knowledgeable about the minutiae of preputial anatomy?). I hope someone will inform Foregen director Enzo (newforeskin, on here, though I'm not sure if he still comes on very often) about this, and hope that they will try to pursue this angle. If Foregen is truly going to be a successful advocate group to promote the interests of victims of non-consensual routine infant male genital mutilation, it's going to be an uphill battle, and they can afford to leave no stone unturned!

[admin]

Originally Posted by INeedAForeskinTransplant

I wrote out a whole freakin’ novella (practically) in response to this last night, but it got deleted accidentally before I could post.

In most browsers, this text editting window has an undo feature. Hit Ctrl-Z if you accidentally delete something.

If you're typing a long time and your forum session expires so you get a notice that you're not logged in when you hit submit, just enter your ID and password and it WILL post what you wrote.

If this deleting happens often, get in the habit of editing your thoughts in MS-Word or Notepad and then copying them to the forum.

[INeedAForeskinTransplant]

Originally Posted by admin

In most browsers, this text editting window has an undo feature. Hit Ctrl-Z if you accidentally delete something.

If you're typing a long time and your forum session expires so you get a notice that you're not logged in when you hit submit, just enter your ID and password and it WILL post what you wrote.

If this deleting happens often, get in the habit of editing your thoughts in MS-Word or Notepad and then copying them to the forum.

Thank you for the tips, Ron! I appreciate it, I'll definitely do that next time. What is your opinion about this new development?

[admin]

Originally Posted by INeedAForeskinTransplant

What is your opinion about this new development?

It sounds like transplantation of lab-grown skin that was cultured from your own DNA. So no risks of immune system rejection, but all the same surgical risks of infection, numbness, scaring, etc.

[Distalero]

Originally Posted by Trent

Message I received from Epistem.co.uk

"Thank you for your recent email regarding skin regeneration. I passed your question to my technical colleagues and they feel it may be possible to grow foreskin. We culture 3 D human living skin equivalents to model normal, healthy skin. However, not all the components of human skin are present though (sweat glands, etc) and it isn’t clear how easy it would be to incorporate that functionality. In the case of damaged foreskin, active desquamation may also be needed. It may be possible to add the enzymes required for desquamation to the skin construct, during culture..."

If Foregen, should focus on companies like epistem, that have the infrastructure to create skin and already clearly know the limitations. It isn't impossible to add adnexa glands (sweat glands, etc.), it simply isn't easy or hasn't been tested for foreskin and isn't easy to say.

Foregen should fund projects within Epistem that create foreskin with the full components of muscle tissue and adnexa glands. epistem.co.uk/contactus.asp

In the interests of clarity, I think that if you re read this email, you'll realize that the language isn't clear at all, but based on what they appear to be saying:

1. They don't seem to be able to create living tissue yet, they "model" "equivalents" (not grow skin) in 3D, which means what while this needs a better description, based on what's said here it means they don't actually grow normal skin yet ;

2. If they do create some sort of living tissue in a lab, then it's not normal so far, because it doesn't display basic properties of normal human epidermis, ie doesn't have supporting organs and it doesn't act like normal skin (desquamation). So this begs the question:

3. Can anyone yet create the specialized formation of normal human epidermis, underlying dermis, assorted organs including blood supply, a layer of smooth muscle (dartos sheath) and a layer of squamous epithelium, ie a mucosal inner layer, and is there any sort of technique yet devised to implant, or somehow attach, this formation to a living penis? The answer is, not yet, of course, it's way too advanced even for practical discussion.

Kinda unclear to me that this outfit is any more advanced and in a position to make things happen than any other as-yet-to be-created research entity. It's still all about experimentation and what's even possible; from the very basics, to the future clinical techniques involved in applying a product after it's invented, and cleared for use.

[INeedAForeskinTransplant]

Originally Posted by Distalero

Can anyone yet create the specialized formation of normal human epidermis, underlying dermis, assorted organs including blood supply, a layer of smooth muscle (dartos sheath) and a layer of squamous epithelium, ie a mucosal inner layer, and is there any sort of technique yet devised to implant, or somehow attach, this formation to a living penis? The answer is, not yet, of course, it's way too advanced even for practical discussion.

What makes you say that? Are you trying to say that what Foregen is trying to do is “way too advanced even for practical discussion”? I certainly hope you're not right about that! One day, I get my hopes up; the next, they get completely dashed down again.

Originally Posted by admin

It sounds like transplantation of lab-grown skin that was cultured from your own DNA. So no risks of immune system rejection, but all the same surgical risks of infection, numbness, scaring, etc.

Hmm, okay, thank you very much for your input, Ron! I have always really respected you and all that you do for our cause! I hope that those risks you mentioned can be mitigated or obviated somehow…

[Trent]

I have something even more good news for you guys

They sent me this response to a second email:

Epistem.co.uk is "a contract service organization so we would need to receive the funding beforehand to engage in any work. We perform in vitro skin culture studies for our pharma and biotech clients and these studies tend to cost in the region of £10,000+ for a single in vitro culture study; studies to develop a new model are likely to cost a lot more. We would then need to factor in the cost of repeat studies."

£10,000+ is US$16,202+

I really believe this is a good option. The organization is very transparent and open with what tools they have and would need, etc. Again they HAVE the researcher, they HAVE the infrastructure (reagents, equipment, etc.), they HAVE the credentials and reputation with the medical community. There is no start-up cost.

The fact that Foregen hasn't even looked into this puts some doubt in my mind about them. Not that they're thieves, etc., but they are bad at information research, networking, leaving every stone unturned, etc.

[Distalero]

Originally Posted by INeedAForeskinTransplant

What makes you say that? Are you trying to say that what Foregen is trying to do is “way too advanced even for practical discussion”?

It's difficult to say what Foregen is doing, other than collecting money before all else. If I understand it correctly (anecdotally only), once they feel they have the funding they will then contract with a preliminary research team to begin the basic, initial experimentation, etc. As I understand it Foregen is some sort of a go-between, possibly a venture business (?), not a research/practical application entity in any way; in other words they don't do the actual research/application, someone else will someday. My point was that it appears no research entity is anywhere near "foreskin" yet, specifically, and according to the language of the email, certainly not Epistem.

What you want to hear in an email is: "...for more information you may contact our product development department ..." because it will be a commercial product that eventually results, not a walk-in clinic; a product that is marketed to the appropriate medical practitioners. I think when people say you can have hope, but please make sure it's a long term hope, that's exactly what they mean, as in a number of years at the least.