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Old May 17th, 2010
CutAsAdult CutAsAdult is offline
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Default Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

Here is my personal story, as posted on http://HistoryOfCircumcision.net

... let this come as a wake up call to all who doubt harmful effects of circ and as a consolation to those cut at birth who are in sorrow, for someone who knows how a real orgasm feels, losing it is much more painful than never fully knowing what you're missing. I'm hopeful for restoration and positive about fighting back. Read on if you'd like and feel free to ask any questions you'd like. There aren't many like myself out there who have willingly fallen to the Dark Side as adults...
======

Biting your elbow:
Russian immigrant to the United States bitterly regrets decision to get circumcised

I’m a 24-year-old man, originally from the former Soviet Union (Ukraine), where circumcision was not practiced (and was discouraged for that matter). When I was a toddler, I had a severe case of phimosis. My mother asked Soviet surgeons to remove my foreskin to cure the condition, but they refused, insisting on topical treatments. Eventually, treatments helped. And so the foreskin stayed.

At the age of seven, I attended one of the first Jewish schools in Ukraine. My mother would get visits from Rabbis insisting that I undergo the surgery and offering a myriad of reasons why: health, spirituality, heritage, everyone in the almighty United States of America does it, etc. My mom did not want to aimlessly hurt me and the foreskin survived again.

We emigrated to the USA and I came to New York City at the age of 11 and went to a Jewish school again, but being raised in an academic family, I gave little heed to religious dogma and never practiced or cared about religion or anything unscientific. High School ended and I went to college. It was a technical school where social life was limp, but I still manage to date some cute girls and sex was amazing. To summarize, a good orgasm was “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!” Continuous, prolonged scream, followed by an “all body” sensation that tickled and sent “waves” all over me, leaving me “high” for a while afterward. For a similar orgasmic account, google a testimony at notjustskin dot org.

College passed and I was on route to law school. A few traumatic events happened in my family (funeral). I missed an entrance examination deadline and had to wait a year to reapply. That left me with a lot of free time. I live in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood, and one day I randomly decided to attend morning synagogue services (out of boredom, I guess). One thing led to another and before I knew it, I was suddenly going about wearing a head-covering, keeping Sabbath and all other laws. I met a nice, charismatic Rabbi who befriended me and I became a frequent family guest at his house for Sabbath and holidays. I also went to Israel and read a bunch of literature aimed at reconciling religion and science, which appealed to me.

I fell in love and dated a Jewish girl from a similar background and after she broke up with me, I experienced such intense anguish and grief that in my depressed mind began attributing it to guilt, sin, Divine retribution and a bunch of similar reasons that my pain-stricken brain went through. [1] As a result, I started getting curious about the most fundamental ritual in Judaism -- circumcision.

The Rabbis explained it to be the most fundamental and sacred commandment that shows that one has a covenant with G-d. In my foolishness, I had shared with my Rabbi that I was uncut and the brainwashing had begun. His point was that despite being such mark of the covenant, circumcision puts a “stamp” on “that which can take control over us.” In other words, it’s a symbolic “lock” that we put our animalistic desires unto and learn to channel them in a directed way (only in marriage). Judaism as a whole is aimed at making a “soldier” out of a person, and many people would agree that strict discipline in life often leads to more pleasure than chaotic life of disorderly regime.

I’m not mocking that explanation because Judaism is indeed concerned with sexual pleasure, and the Rabbis have many books written on how husband and wife ought to bring each other to ecstasy. Judaism also has marital purity laws where the husband and wife separate for about a week and a half during menstrual cycle. The point is that couples live as friends for some time and the break allows them to renew sexual hunger for each other and decrease desensitization. Furthermore, a lot of emphasis is placed (written since ancient literature) on making sure a woman has an orgasm (talk about modern society finding out what a clitoris is not so long ago). “Look at an average religious woman,“ my Rabbi would say. “Does anyone look dissatisfied? Does anyone need to find tips in Cosmopolitan about 39 orgasmic tricks? They are more satisfied than secular people who get desensitized with everything, especially through porn.” All of these contemplations appealed to me in terms of living according to religion.

While researchers have a disagreement as to whether it’s true, indeed I have personally noticed that modern secular world seems to make so much emphasis on sex and exposure that people could get desensitized easily. Speaking from experience, porn would often desensitize me to real women to the point of having serious quarrels with ex-girlfriends. (For an interesting book discouraging pornography, see I Love Female Orgasm, By Dorian Solot and Marshall Miller).

I looked at many anti-circumcision websites, but most of them pointed to no more than “decreased sensitivity.” That definition seemed ambiguous and suggested that it related to sensitivity experienced while thrusting. Who cares, I thought. Condoms diminish sensitivity, but the orgasm is what counts! I spoke to some Russian buddies at a local synagogue who got circumcised as adults, and they favored that explanation. “Yes sensitivity decreases but it won’t hurt either you or her,“ said one. “Idiot, you last longer. What are you waiting for? Go do it!”

I also understood that the sliding function would be gone. In a chat with a law school roommate, he once asked me, “Have you heard about this new lube? It lets you bang her in the breasts for a while, and it won’t hurt one bit!” “Oh yeah? I don’t need to use lube and have never even understood why it’s selling, aside from using it on girls to help with vaginal lubrication,” I replied. I also told him that I had never fully understood a famous American expression “Get your dick wet”, as natural men have normally moist organs all the time. However, that must not have stuck in my head enough. My roommate (who is not religious) replied, “Well dude, but circ is something millions of Americans do. Does anyone seem unhappy?” Why I never capitalized on the point that it’s only because they don’t know the difference, I don’t know.

Another factor that got me off-track were some pro-circ websites: These sites have many alleged reports from men who claim to have experienced an increase in sexual pleasure following circumcision. There are many more anti-circ sites out there with negative reports, but in the mind of a confused, semi-brainwashed person, they did enough to turn the tide to the dark side.

Such contemplations finally moved me to do the unreasonable and remove my foreskin. I remember worrying too much about pain, but that was needless. An experienced Jewish surgeon (called mohel {pronounced MOY-el}) performed everything painlessly, and the wounds healed fast. A big feast was thrown in my honor, and I have become a “hero” in the community; in fact, I’m still proclaimed as such every time someone from my community gets a chance to introduce me to another person, especially a famous Rabbi. Yet, no praise in the world can cure the scar of losing that which I’ve dreamed about since Bar Mitzvah: Powerful Orgasm.

To cut my long story short (no pun intended), orgasm decreased tremendously. The continuous “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!” described above turned into “ah ah ah” at most. Masturbation (which I’m not a fan of for personal/desensitization reasons, but I realize many people like it) lost pleasure altogether. Barely a sound comes out. Ejaculatory force decreased, with loss of propelling powerful Orgasm, and indeed the penis is dry and uncomfortable. It’s been a year now, and I can’t wear boxers because it hurts when my uncovered head rubs against clothing. I bought the Manhood protection device, and it does help somewhat. I realize that soon my head will lose all sensation and it won’t hurt anymore, but that’s not consoling one bit.

My grandfather once told me a story about how they used to train them to ride horses without a saddle before World War 2, which hurt a lot and after a while, a layer grew on buttocks that made such riding painless. That’s what eventually happens to cut penises. Everyone always made an argument to me that it doesn’t matter much for women, and they’re (thankfully) not dissatisfied. But as beautiful and wonderful it is that some women like uncut men and experience great pleasure regardless, no one thinks enough about whether the man is satisfied. Even in (American) porn, a woman is the sexual moaning creature that gets “out of this world” multiple orgasms, while a man is someone who just needs to “get off”, release, and go home. That may be so, and the foreskin alone doesn’t get a man to have multiple orgasms; but as far as INTENSITY is concerned, I used to scream and get such a reaction that made my girlfriends (none of whom had ever experienced a natural man) wonder whether “I’m OK”, and “how did I get to have such a powerful reactions that made me keep on moaning with closed eyes after ejaculating”?

My only solace now is that had never experienced unprotected sex before and hopefully, at least that new experience would compensate for the loss, though I’m expecting it to be worse than natural sex with a condom as far as orgasm is concerned. Also, it would always keep me wondering what it would feel like to have had natural unprotected sex, as I had always dreamed.

Ironically, all the best research came to me when it was too late, such as a short documentary video by Ari Libsker (google it) and http://HistoryOfCircumcision.net.

If you’re an adult considering circumcision, THINK AGAIN! As the Russian saying goes, “You’ll be biting your elbows,” meaning you’ll be making an irreversible mistake that you could regret for the rest of your life.


Note:
I never grew up as one of those popular teenage boys who are successful with girls and used to get overly emotionally attached to whatever relationship I would acquire -- thousands of “socially inept” men (inspired by some best-selling motivational authors like Neil Strauss ) have formed a vast online “seduction” community where men share tips/strategies on how to become natural at attracting ladies - e.g. http://FastSeduction.com. It would have paid better to spend the time and effort improving my “game” rather than falling into religion.
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Old May 17th, 2010
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madbr3991 madbr3991 is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

im sorry you had to go through that.

again religion wins over logic and reason. look no benevolent god would ask you. to make a contract with him and sign it with blood and flesh. that is something that the devil would do. a benevolent god would never ask you to remove the most sensitive part of your body. he put it there right. and to think that people are doing this to babies makes me sick. a baby cant choose what religion he wants to be. so when its done to a baby. the parents are signing a contract with the blood and flesh of a baby an innocent. only the devil would ask of such a pact. something went wrong when that part of the book was written
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Old May 17th, 2010
Them Boots Them Boots is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

Thank you for sharing....and welcome to the forums

Sorry you had to find us (you know what I mean)......

These religions are so contradictory....religious thought down through the ages taught us that Man was created in the image of God.....but we seem to have foreskins at birth, which means that the foreskin is also part of this image, is it not? So God says, "I put this thing on there specifically so that you have to prove your allegiance to me by cutting it off...."

Another thing that boggles my mind is religious leaders teaching about sex and sexuality.....and they're supposed to be celibate

If a religion demands that you get circumcised to control your sexual urges, well...there's other things that can be removed to control those too. For example, if your eyes are removed, then you won't be tempted by seeing all the pretty girls
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Old May 17th, 2010
CutAsAdult CutAsAdult is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

Thanks for replying, everyone.

There are plenty of religious "explanations", but I'd prefer not to start a religious discussion here.

My main point in sharing the story is to shatter anyone's doubts as to the Anti-Orgasmic effects of circumcision, as experienced by someone who has had foreskin throughout his teens and early twenties.
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Old May 18th, 2010
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Purist Purist is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

I think everyone has their own story, and thank you for sharing yours.

If it's any encouragement, I would definitely say you have your youth on your side - by the time you're finished restoring, you'll still be very much a young man. (See you around on masf )
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Old May 18th, 2010
jninja jninja is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

Before everyone starts bashing religion remember he chose to do this. This was not forced on him by anyone.
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Old May 18th, 2010
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

I am told that this so-called "covenant" fails to appear in the Book of J, which is supposed to be the oldest version of the Torah.

At any rate, this simply one more account exposing religious quackery. It shows how people are more concerned about spreading a superstitios blood ritual than they actually are about the health and well-being of children. Circumcision seems to be the only situation where radical disfiguring surgery is suggested in light of effective, less invasive solutions to legitimate conditions such as phimosis.

It seems your Jewish friends weren't concerned as much for your physical and/or sexual well-being as they were that they gained one more "player for the team." You bring up a good point; it seems to be accepted doctrine that it is women who should ever be entitled to sexual satisfaction, and a man must be this stiff (pardon the pun), lifeless medium with which this must be realized. It seems all a man should ever be expected to do is serve the role of sperm incubator and that's it.

I think it has always been KNOWN that circumcision desensitizes a man. Maimonides notes this in his works well, and this was the whole premise on which John Harvey Kellogg managed to sell circumcision to America. It just doesn't MATTER that a man loses sensitivity, as this privilege is reserved only for women.

The loss in sensitivity for a man is minimized, while for a woman it is exaggerated. Note the double-standard in how quickly and vehemently proponents of circumcision point out that FGM removes a woman's ability to orgasm. (SO not true, BTW... http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...96293/abstract)

Far from needless surgery, this account only shows how circumcision actually serves to harm an individual and diminish his sexual experience, and why it should be His Body, His Choice.
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Old May 18th, 2010
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Joseph Joseph is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by jninja View Post
Before everyone starts bashing religion remember he chose to do this. This was not forced on him by anyone.
I'm not exactly sure why anyone should stick up for religion, especially a religion that drives people to cause irrevocable damage to one's body, and the bodies of one's children.

Obviously this person regrets ever having gone through with his decision.

I hope it can be acknowledged that religion, however well-intentioned it may be, can and does drive people to do strange, if not outright outrageous, things.
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Old May 18th, 2010
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peterpink peterpink is offline
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Default Re: Circumcized at 23 - Personal Story

I have always said that religion is full of lies and deceit. Here we have yet another example. Is it too much to expect that CutAsAdult will confront his Jewish friends with the truth? Of course they are probably too indoctrinated with their religious culture to change their ideas. Only religion could have a covenant between a human and a god whose existence is unprovable that involves genital mutilation of a helpless baby. Religion causes good people to do bad things.

Having said that, there is a strong Jewish movement against forced circumcision which we should support.
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Old May 18th, 2010
CutAsAdult CutAsAdult is offline
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Exclamation Ari Libsker Video

Here is the link mentioned in the article: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5130226634650#

Had I watched it prior to the surgery, it might have made a difference - great video!
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